Welcome back to the deal on today's episode, Erica Ayers-Badan.
歡迎回到今天的節目，Erica Ayers-Badan。
00:05
She's now the CEO of Food52.
她現在是 Food52 的 CEO。
00:07
You knew her in her previous job as CEO of Barstool Sports.
你曾在她之前擔任 Barstool Sports CEO 時認識她。
00:10
I did, and she's a master at turning around companies.
我也認識她，她擅長扭轉公司。
00:13
I cannot wait to hear it, but she's a great leader, great communicator, and she's on to new things.
我迫不及待想聽她說，但她是一位優秀的領導者、出色的溝通者，並且正踏上新事業。
00:17
Yeah, she has got massive ambitions.
是的，她有龐大的抱負。
00:20
She's also deep into the world of La Crosse.
她也深耕 La Crosse 的領域。
00:22
She played in college, and now she's on the board of the Premier La Crosse League with our buddy Paul Reibull.
她在大學時期打球，現在與我們的朋友 Paul Reibull 一同擔任 Premier La Crosse League 的董事會成員。
00:27
So lots to talk to her about coming up, Erica Ayers-Badan.
所以有很多事情要跟她討論，Erica Ayers-Badan。
00:35
All right, my man, Erica Ayers-Badan is here with us.
好了，我的朋友，Erica Ayers-Badan 正在我們這裡。
00:39
You guys are all buddies, so I got to turn this over to you.
你們都是朋友，所以我要把這件事交給你們。
00:42
You got to lead this one.
你得帶領這一項。
00:43
This is strange, so thank you, Jason.
這很奇怪，謝謝你，Jason。
00:45
So, Erica, we're so excited to have you.
Erica，我們非常高興有你加入。
00:47
Obviously, we worked together a little bit with Barstool.
顯然，我們在 Barstool 也有少量合作。
00:50
I saw you firsthand how wonderful you led with the conviction and really how much success they had under your leadership, and the growth was incredible.
我親眼目睹你以堅定的信念領導，並且看到他們在你領導下取得的巨大成功，成長真是驚人。
00:56
Now, you're a food 52.
現在，你在 Food52 工作。
00:58
It feels like a big pivot.
這感覺像是一個大轉折。
01:00
What is the through line for you?
對你來說，核心主線是什麼？
01:03
That's a great question.
那是個好問題。
01:04
So thank you for having me.
感謝你邀請我。
01:07
I sold Barstool twice in 2023, so we sold it to Penn National, and then we bought it back for Dave Porter and I for a dollar.
I couldn't have dreamed that we would have had two exits in a year, that the company would be back with Dave.
我從未想像過一年內會有兩次退出，並且公司會與Dave重新合作。
01:35
I really felt good about that because I felt like Dave was always the right steward for Barstool, and I gave what I could give and the gift of the machine while I was there, and I felt that the greatest offense to what I had done for the past almost a decade would be to stay after I was creating.
And I just felt like it was offensive to everything I sacrificed to build it, that I wanted to go find a new adventure and a place where I could start and try to build something again.
I also felt like I had marketed to 18 to 24 year old men for the better part of a decade.
我還覺得自己在過去十年中一直針對18至24歲的男性進行市場行銷。
02:14
And I was like, I know how to do this.
我想，這我懂。
02:16
I was finding that I wasn't crazy stimulated by it.
我發現自己並沒有被它激發得瘋狂。
02:22
And I was writing a book at the time, and the last section of the book is, do you stay or do you go?
那時我正在寫一本書，書的最後一章是：你是留下還是離開？
02:27
And the point where you go is when things stop scaring you.
你離開的關鍵點是當事情不再讓你害怕時。
02:31
And I felt that moving into the women's space and moving into home and lifestyle and manufacturing was sufficiently scary.
我覺得進軍女性領域、家庭與生活方式以及製造業足以讓人感到恐懼。
02:39
And so I made the pivot.
於是我做出了轉折。
02:40
And I've never asked you this, how do you get an opportunity like Barstool?
我從未問過你，怎麼會得到像Barstool這樣的機會？
02:43
It was a headhunter called say Erica, I have a wild idea.
那是一位名叫Erica的獵頭，我有個瘋狂的想法。
02:46
How does that work?
那是怎麼運作的？
02:46
No, so it was actually funny.
不，事實上這真的很有趣。
02:48
So when it was very random, it was by accident.
所以當它非常隨機時，都是偶然的。
02:51
So I was in Los Angeles and I worked in music.
我在洛杉磯，從事音樂相關工作。
02:56
I had a startup in the music space trying to build really fan platforms around music artists.
我在音樂領域創辦了一家初創公司，試圖為音樂藝術家打造真正的粉絲平台。
03:03
And we were raising money and we went to go see the chair and group.
我們正在籌集資金，並去見董事長和團隊。
03:06
And I walked into the meeting and the chair and group were like, oh, hey, we just put money to this company you've never heard of.
我走進會議室，董事長和團隊說：「哦，嘿，我們剛投資了一家你從未聽說過的公司。」
03:13
And I was like, well, what's the company?
我說：「那家公司是什麼？」
03:14
And they said, oh, it's Barstool Swartz.
他們說：「哦，是 Barstool Swartz。」
03:16
And I pulled up my phone.
我打開手機。
03:17
And I was like, I lived in Boston when Dave started Barstool.
我說：「我在波士頓時，Dave 創辦 Barstool。」
03:21
I used to get, you know, I'd be hung over on the T and I would read the paper and I have the app.
我以前常在 T 上宿醉，閱讀報紙，並使用那個應用程式。
03:26
And I'm like, here's everything that's right with it.
我說：「這裡有它所有好的地方。」
03:28
Here's everything that's wrong with it.
這裡有它所有的不好的地方。
03:31
And then my business partner was pissed because he was like, we should be focusing on raising money for us.
然後我的商業夥伴很生氣，因為他說：「我們應該專注於為自己籌資。」
03:36
But I really couldn't shake that conversation.
但我真的無法擺脫那段對話。
03:39
I felt very jealous because I knew that they would probably find a white guy with an MBA and a vest and a button down shirt.
我感到非常嫉妒，因為我知道他們可能會找到一個白人、擁有MBA、戴背心、穿襯衫的男士。
03:47
And that was not me.
那不是我。
03:49
And I pursued that opportunity hard.
我努力追求那個機會。
03:53
I tried to find anyone I could to get connected to Dave.
我盡力尋找任何能幫我聯繫到 Dave 的人。
03:57
I finally got connected to Dave probably three months later.
大約三個月後，我終於聯繫到 Dave。
04:00
We met in a coffee shop in the West Village.
我們在西村的一家咖啡店相遇。
04:03
And I pretty much was working for Barstool since that moment.
從那一刻起，我幾乎一直在為 Barstool 工作。
04:07
But it didn't come.
但它並沒有出現。
04:08
It was actually very interesting because they had interviewed, I think, probably 70-ish guys, 70-75 guys or men for the job.
其實很有趣，因為他們大約面試了 70 到 75 名男性候選人。
04:16
And you could tell the recruiter was irritated by the time I showed up because the recruiter had done his part, you know, with showing candidates, showing candidates.
你可以看出招聘者在我到達時很煩躁，因為他已經完成了自己的工作，展示了候選人。
04:24
He's like, I've delivered all these bros.
他說：「我已經送出了這些兄弟。」
04:26
I've never done.
我從未做到過。
04:28
And this chick walks in.
然後這個女孩走進來。
04:30
And so that's how I got it.
於是我就得到它了。
04:31
Wow.
哇。
04:32
Did you have any idea what you were in for?
你有沒有想過你會遇到什麼？
04:34
No.
沒有。
04:36
No.
沒有。
04:37
You said something interesting a minute ago that I love, which is the gift of the machine.
你剛才說了一句我喜歡的有趣話，說的是「機器的禮物」。
04:42
Was that what was in your mind?
那是你心裡想的嗎？
04:43
That's what it needed?
那是它所需要的？
04:44
Because it was less than $5 million.
因為它不到五百萬美元。
04:47
It was less than $5 million.
它不到五百萬美元。
04:50
It was probably 14 people.
可能有 14 個人。
04:52
They were based in Boston.
他們位於波士頓。
04:53
Like it was, you know, when I remember my first summer there, there was no office.
就像那時候，我記得我第一次在那裡的夏天，根本沒有辦公室。
04:58
I worked in hotel lobbies and coffee shops while we, while Dave and I built the office, opened the office.
我在酒店大堂和咖啡店工作，當時我和戴夫一起建設並開啟辦公室。
05:06
We weren't sure who was on payroll.
我們不確定誰在薪資名單上。
05:08
So speaking of that, you go from under 15 people employees.
那麼說到這點，你的員工人數從不到15人起步。
05:12
You go from the sub 5 million revenue.
你的營收從不到500萬起。
05:15
You probably don't even have a P&L.
你可能甚至沒有損益表。
05:17
Fairly.
相當。
05:18
Yeah.
對。
05:18
By the time you leave, you go from that to about $250 million at the top line revenue.
到你離開時，營收已從那個數字增長到約2.5億美元。
05:23
What were some of those drivers, the main drivers?
那些主要驅動因素是什麼？
05:25
Yeah.
對。
05:26
I mean, I think the quote unquote machine was what we were really good at is one is finding new platforms at the time of emergence.
我的意思是，我認為「機器」這個概念是我們真正擅長的：在新平台剛出現時尋找它。
05:36
So podcasting was podcasting was just starting to emerge around 2016, 2015, 14 to 16.
因此播客剛開始於2014到2016年間興起。
05:44
And most of the big broadcasters weren't in it deeply because there was no money there.
大多數大型廣播公司並未深入參與，因為那裡沒有錢。
05:50
And we had no money and the cost of production for podcasts was very low.
我們也沒有錢，而播客的製作成本非常低。
05:55
And so it was a, there was a low barrier of entry for us to make a lot of podcasts.
因此對我們來說，進入門檻很低，可以製作大量播客。
06:00
So we started to make a lot of podcasts and then, you know, a year later, Facebook live and Twitter bought Periscope and it was live streaming on the Internet.
我們開始製作大量播客，接著一年後，Facebook Live 和 Twitter 收購了 Periscope，開始在網路上直播。
06:10
We got into that.
我們也進入了這個領域。
06:11
And so the machine quote unquote, the machine is really, how do you find emergent platforms?
所以「機器」這個概念，其實是關於：你怎麼找到新興平台？
06:17
How do you find programming that was authentic?
你怎麼找到真實的節目？
06:21
I really felt that there's something with young men in particular that didn't want to be preached, preached at or told what, you know, the whole notion of sports center was dying where you didn't, you weren't going to wait until 11 o'clock at night to see what happened today.
You wanted the score and you wanted the opinion in the same, in the same conversation in the same context.
你想要比分，也想在同一場對話、同一情境中得到意見。
06:42
And what we built was the ability to clip that, post that, promote that, circulate it and monetize it.
我們建構的功能是能夠剪輯、發布、推廣、傳播並將其貨幣化。
06:49
Well, and you also discovered this notion of creators at the core, right?
而且你也發現了以創作者為核心的概念，對吧？
06:56
I mean, I mean, Portnoy, and we'll talk a bit about him.
我的意思是，Portnoy，我們稍微談談他。
06:59
I'm sure, you know, at the, at the center of that, but you also said about finding people, not just, you found people and married them to platforms.
我相信，你知道，這一切的核心是，但你也提到尋找人才，不僅僅是找到人，還把他們與平台結合。
07:07
Is that a fear?
那是恐懼嗎？
07:08
Yes.
是的。
07:08
We found people, and Dave is really gifted at this, is the Dave Gazz.
我們找到了人才，Dave 在這方面非常有天賦，就是 Dave Gazz。
07:14
Like the core bar still guys have very good eye for talent.
就像核心團隊，大家對人才的眼光非常好。
07:17
And we were at a point where, you know, it's kind of pre the capital I influencer world that we live in now, but the alchemy of weirdos from, you know, somebody's railing about New Jersey, New Jersey Transit.
And next thing you know, you have Frank the Tank and you're putting Frank the Tank next to an Alex Rodriguez or Dion Sanders.
接著你會發現，Frank the Tank 被放在 Alex Rodriguez 或 Dion Sanders 旁邊。
07:37
And it's, it's just weird.
這真的很怪。
07:39
And so that was very powerful.
所以這非常強大。
07:40
Alex is like confirmed.
Alex 已經確認。
07:42
Yes.
是的。
07:44
Yes.
是的。
07:46
So we did a good job of discovering talent.
所以我們在發掘人才方面做得很好。
07:48
And then we did a good job of setting a social norm inside the company of a high degree of productivity and a high volume of output.
然後我們在公司內建立了高生產力和高產出的社會規範。
07:57
And we had a lot of at bats.
我們有很多嘗試。
07:59
So because we had so many at bats, it was easier for us to get a hit.
因為我們有那麼多次打擊機會，我們更容易得到擊球。
08:02
So you had some at bats.
所以你有一些打擊機會。
08:04
I mean, what was your impression?
我的意思是，你對此有什麼印象？
08:05
I just thought first of all, I thought Erica was a great leader.
我首先想到的是，我覺得 Erica 是個很棒的領袖。
08:08
You always come up with wild ideas with her.
你總是和她一起想出瘋狂的點子。
08:10
And she never said, no, that's not going to work.
她從不說「不，這行不通」。
08:12
She always try to figure out like, okay, how do we think outside the box?
她總是想辦法說：「好吧，我們怎麼能跳出框框思考？」
08:15
How do we get to a yes?
我們怎麼能得到肯定？
08:16
Let me think on that for a couple of days.
讓我想想幾天。
08:18
And she'll come back to you with really productive feedback.
然後她會帶著非常有成效的回饋回來。
08:21
But I mean, I was working with Dan, who's very, very talented, the cat.
但我的意思是，我和 Dan 合作，他非常非常有才華，這個人。
08:24
Yeah.
是啊。
08:25
And he had an enormous audience.
他擁有龐大的觀眾群。
08:27
The brand is so big, Jason, that when I would go to colleges to give talks or whatever, or even walking here in the cities of New York, the people would be like, barstool, barstool.
And so Erica, I want to go back to the pen deal that you mentioned, because that sort of sits at the center in terms of the deal making that you guys did.
那麼 Erica，我想回到你提到的筆交易，因為那在你們所做的交易中居於中心位置。
08:51
So how does that all go down?
那麼整件事是怎麼進行的？
08:53
So when I joined barstool, the investors felt that we should be able to do, I want to say $25 million in revenue in four or five years.
We ended up doing $25 million of revenue in like two and a half years.
我們最終在兩年半左右就實現了 2500 萬美元的營收。
09:11
So we, it just, we took off very, very fast.
所以我們，簡直是非常非常快地起飛。
09:14
And that's mostly ads and commerce, so in t-shirts, right, merchandise.
這主要來自廣告和商業，例如 T 恤、商品等。
09:20
But we then built a subscription business.
但我們之後建立了訂閱業務。
09:23
We built a pay per view business.
我們建立了按次付費的業務。
09:24
We were able to spin up businesses in a way that was very fast because we were, we were I would say reckless, but also highly entrepreneurial.
我們能以非常迅速的方式啟動業務，因為我們可以說是魯莽的，但同時也非常具有創業精神。
09:34
But long story short, we knew that there were two outcomes.
但長話短說，我們知道會有兩種結果。
09:37
One was that a media company would buy barstool sports.
一種是媒體公司會收購 Barstool Sports。
09:40
And then when PASPA was repealed and gaming and gambling looked like it would scale in the US, that became very obvious that that was going to be the path.
然後當 PASPA 被廢除，遊戲和賭博看似會在美國擴張時，這變得非常明顯，這將是未來的路徑。
09:51
And so this was the Supreme Court decision that basically allowed for allowed for states to regulate sports betting on a market by market basis.
這就是最高法院的裁決，基本上允許各州按市場逐個調整體育博彩。
09:59
And prior to that, it was illegal across the country.
在此之前，整個國家都非法。
10:04
I had always built the business to have optionality for either path.
我一直把業務建構為可以選擇任一條路徑。
10:09
And it's kind of interesting, like the Fox, you know, Dave was on Fox in September.
這有點有趣，就像 Fox 那樣，你知道，Dave 在九月出現在 Fox 上。
10:14
And then the, the good morning barstool show launched, like that was actually probably the right outcome for barstool sports is to find a media home because the company has intrinsic media DNA.
然後 Good Morning Barstool 節目啟動，這其實可能是 Barstool Sports 找到媒體平台的正確結果，因為公司本身就有媒體 DNA。
10:28
Penn came along, Penn needed a brand.
Penn 出現了，Penn 需要一個品牌。
10:31
They had a large regional casino footprint.
他們在地區性賭場有廣泛的足跡。
10:34
They had infrastructure and they had a lot of licenses.
他們擁有基礎設施，並且持有許多牌照。
10:38
They had all the state licenses or most of the state licenses at the time.
他們當時擁有所有州的牌照，或大部分州的牌照。
10:42
And so in that regard, we were really, really good match versus a draft Kings or a fan dual or an MGM.
Those are companies we had supplied a lot of audience to.
那些公司是我們曾為其提供大量觀眾的公司。
10:55
And the way I built to that, or we built to that is, you know, in year one, we had five gambling partners.
我們為此所採取的方式是，第一年我們有五個博彩合作夥伴。
11:04
And in year two, we had two gambling partners and in year three, we had one.
第二年我們有兩個博彩合作夥伴，第三年則只有一個。
11:09
So I tried to create more and more competition and a king making of who our partner was.
因此，我試圖創造越來越多的競爭，並決定誰將成為我們的合作夥伴。
11:15
And then by the time Penn came along, we had a very, very good case study and a very high volume of proof points of our ability to transact and our ability to drive customers for someone else.
到了 Penn 出現時，我們已經擁有非常非常好的案例研究，以及大量證據，證明我們能夠完成交易並為他人帶來客戶。
11:28
I think a lot of times in acquisitions, what the acquiree forgets about is that the acquirer wants customers and you are a conduit to either acquiring, keeping, or upselling those customers.
It seemed that Jason and I were talking offline, like a dream.
看起來 Jason 與我在離線討論，彷彿在做夢。
11:46
And I remember at the time, what a brilliant idea.
我還記得當時，這是一個多麼聰明的點子。
11:49
You have the regional footprint with Vegas and you have the bricks and mortar and you guys have, you know, the brand, the gambling and also Penn wasn't cool.
你們在拉斯維加斯擁有區域覆蓋，還有實體店面，你們也擁有品牌、博彩業務，而 Penn 也不酷。
11:58
You guys made it cool and you made it relevant.
你們讓它變得酷炫，並使其變得相關。
12:00
When you trade on something like that, educate us a little bit, is it more top line?
當你在這樣的交易上進行時，請稍微說明一下，這是更高的營收嗎？
12:05
Is it a multiple of EBITDA or just, you know, how does that work?
是以 EBITDA 的倍數計算，還是其他方式？這是怎麼運作的？
12:08
So we were a multiple of EBITDA.
所以我們是以 EBITDA 的倍數計價。
12:11
So we were lucky in that we had good EBITDA in the business, most of it we reinvested for growth.
我們很幸運，因為業務的 EBITDA 很好，我們大部分將其再投資於增長。
12:19
We were also looked at on a multiple because we had a very healthy and growing ad business and we were growing thousands of percent or hundreds of percent on an annual basis, really on every dimension.
So if it was ad revenue, if it was audience growth, if it's downloads on podcasts, we now there is a discount because the brand was controversial and there was like, well,
what about, what about Barstool, what about, what about.
那又怎麼樣，Barstool 又怎麼樣，怎麼樣，怎麼樣。
12:50
So there was a discount to that.
所以那部分有折扣。
12:52
And the partnership, you know, that in good ways and bad ways, you know, we never, Dave and I never set foot in a Penn casino before we did the partnership.
至於合作，無論好壞，我和戴夫在進行合作之前從未踏足過 Penn 的賭場。
13:03
And I think we didn't know in some ways what we didn't know going into it.
我想我們在進入這個合作時，對於我們不知道的事實並不清楚。
13:09
I think we brought a tremendous amount of value to Penn.
我認為我們為 Penn 帶來了巨大的價值。
13:12
You saw it in the stock price, pop, you saw it in the audience, you saw it in the establishment of the brand ultimately wasn't a fit.
你可以從股價、觀眾人數以及品牌建立中看到，最終這並不合適。
13:19
When did you know it wasn't working?
你什麼時候知道它不起作用？
13:22
It was hard.
那很困難。
13:23
It just was really.
它真的很……
13:24
From the beginning.
從一開始。
13:25
Yeah, like from the jump, like it, you know, and to in fairness to Penn, they had state and government controlled licenses.
是的，就像一開始就如此，對 Penn 公平地說，他們擁有州政府和政府控制的牌照。
13:35
Like if your business is predicated on a government license, like you can't mess that up.
如果你的業務依賴政府牌照，你就不能搞砸。
13:41
Like you just, you just think differently, you act differently.
你只能以不同的方式思考，行動。
13:45
So that was really hard for us because we were more successful and most fulfilled, the most audience we were getting more, the more audience we got, the more eyeballs we got, the more people talked about Barstool, the more people looked at us or talked about us, the better off we were.
People stop talking to you, which was so antithetical to how the company was built.
人們停止與你交談，這與公司建立的方式完全相反。
14:07
The second piece of it was Penn is a really cash driven business, right?
第二點是 Penn 是一個真正以現金為驅動的業務，對吧？
14:12
So they collected, you know, they were collecting coins and casinos, right?
所以他們收集，嗯，他們在收集硬幣和賭場，對吧？
14:18
And when you collect the cash every night and you count it, you have a high degree of predictability and you have a high degree of certainty around what your revenue is on a day to day basis.
當你每晚收集現金並統計時，你會有高度的可預測性，以及對每日收入的高度確定性。
14:29
In the media businesses, you all know, like it doesn't work that way.
在媒體業務中，你們都知道，事情並不是那樣運作的。
14:33
So I felt personally I was spending a lot of time predicting what the revenue one month from now was going to look like on any given Wednesday.
所以我個人感覺自己花了大量時間預測一個月後的收入在任何週三會是什麼樣子。
14:40
And it just was like, it just was two really different beasts.
這就像是兩種完全不同的存在。
14:45
If you have a mulligan and in hindsight, Penn never happened.
如果你有重來機會，事後回想，Penn 其實從未發生。
14:50
Yeah.
對。
14:50
Knowing what you do now, going back, what would be the ideal, maybe one or two companies would be the ideal buyer.
知道現在你所做的，回頭來看，理想的買家可能只有一兩家公司。
14:59
I mean, you know, I'm so grateful that Penn did happen.
我的意思是，你知道，我非常感激 Penn 真的發生了。
15:02
It changed, you know, it changed everyone's life.
它改變了，改變了每個人的生活。
15:05
It freed Barstool up to go back to being privately owned, gave, you know, a huge reward to the investor.
它讓 Barstool 重新回到私有化，給投資者帶來了巨大的回報。
15:12
Like it was a win for, you know, most everyone in that equation.
就像是對那個等式中的大多數人來說都是一次勝利。
15:17
I think Fox is probably the right home for Barstool, like always was the right one to be honest with you.
我認為 Fox 可能是 Barstool 的正確歸宿，老實說，它一直是正確的選擇。
15:24
There was a hot minute.
有一段熱烈的時刻。
15:24
We thought it was ESPN.
我們以為是 ESPN。
15:25
Obviously, that wasn't going to be ESPN after we had, you know, one AM disastrous one episode TV show.
显然，在我们经历了一场灾难性的单集电视节目后，那并不是 ESPN。
15:32
But I think Fox was right.
但我认为 Fox 是对的。
15:35
I think DraftKings or Fandall would have been probably a better fit with similar challenges to Penn.
我认为 DraftKings 或 Fandall 可能更合适，面临与 Penn 类似的挑战。
15:44
But I really do think from a media perspective, it would have been Fox.
但我真的认为从媒体角度来看，它应该是 Fox。
15:47
Yeah.
對。
15:48
And so, you know, you mentioned this a minute ago, the notion of being out there, the notion of being loud, even the notion of controversy, to some extent, was a feature, not a buck.
所以，你知道，你刚才提到，处于外面、发声、甚至争议的概念，在某种程度上是一种特征，而不是一种负担。
16:00
When it came to Barstool, that must have presented challenges for you as a CEO.
当涉及 Barstool 时，这一定给你作为 CEO 带来了挑战。
16:06
How do you deal with that as a manager?
作為經理，你如何處理這種情況？
16:09
You get very thick skin and, you know, Barstool, there was just, it was, we were not in crisis, but we created crisis for other people in our business dealings, which was challenging.
It was trial by fire, which was a really good business experience.
這是一場火試，對我們來說是一次非常好的商業經驗。
16:26
Like not much phases me in business at this point, because we had so much happen, you know, Barstool years are like dog years.
現在在商業上並沒有太多階段，因為發生了太多事，你知道，Barstool 的歲月就像狗年一樣。
16:35
So it's, there was a lot that, that happened in that, but it was also media is a really interesting business.
因此，發生了許多事情，但媒體本身也是一個非常有趣的行業。
16:42
And I mean, to take it to the obvious point, like, there's controversy and then there's like Dave Portnoy controversy, you know, and obviously he's like next level.
我想說的是，說到明顯的點，存在爭議，然後還有 Dave Portnoy 的爭議，你知道，他顯然是更高一個層次。
16:51
Right.
對。
16:51
He's been accused of things that he's denied, you know, like, how do you take that on as a CEO?
他被指控做了他否認的事，你知道，作為 CEO，你怎麼處理這種情況？
16:57
Every day, everyone at Barstool starts with a blank page and the camera is on 24 seven and most anyone where the camera is on 24 seven and your job is to make people laugh out of a blank page every day.
Like, so the first is just the acknowledgement of this is the world we play in.
首先只是承認這就是我們所處的世界。
17:21
And this is the business we chose and the cause that we adopted.
這是我們選擇的商業，也是我們採納的原因。
17:27
I think on the Dave piece of it, like I really loved working with Dave.
我覺得在 Dave 這一部分，我真的很喜歡與 Dave 合作。
17:30
Dave is really truly brilliant.
Dave 真是非常聰明。
17:33
He's a brilliant business person.
他是一位出色的商業人士。
17:35
He has incredible instinct.
他有驚人的直覺。
17:37
He is very decisive.
他非常果斷。
17:39
He also is confident enough to know what he doesn't know.
他也足夠自信，知道自己不知道什麼。
17:43
And I worked for him, you know, with him for almost a decade and I trusted him.
我與他共事近十年，我對他充滿信任。
17:48
Like I truly and, you know, I truly trusted him on every level.
我真心、真的在各個層面上都信任他。
17:53
And when things got tough and stuff was, you know, thrown at him, we talked a lot about it, you know, and it's intimate and it's personal and it's just, you know, things people don't necessarily want to know about one another.
當事情變得艱難、他面臨種種挑戰時，我們談了很多，這是親密且個人的，正是人們不一定想彼此了解的事。
18:06
But I also felt like he was super forthright with me.
但我也覺得他對我非常坦誠。
18:11
And I think he also is super forthright with his audience.
我也覺得他對他的觀眾同樣非常坦率。
18:15
And there's people who like that and there's people who don't like that.
有些人喜歡這樣，也有些人不喜歡。
18:19
And, but I also, I felt like I had really partnered with a quality person who that I was going to ride or die with in that.
但我也覺得自己真的與一位優秀的人結成夥伴，將與他同甘共苦。
18:29
And so, you know, one of the things that that I think we're both fascinated by is and I've been listening to your podcast work, which is really good.
所以，我想我們都對其中一件事感到著迷，我一直在聽你的播客，真的很棒。
18:38
In part because, you know, when you walked in, I felt like I knew you because it is a very authentic, it feels like representation of yourself.
部分原因是，當你走進來時，我感覺像是認識你，因為那非常真實，像是你自己的代表。
18:45
Is that just how you've always been or is an experience, is your professional experience?
這只是不斷的你，還是經驗、專業經歷？
18:51
Has it made you that way that you are transparent and open and like very comfortable with real talk?
這是否讓你變得如此透明、開放，並且對真實對話非常自在？
18:59
Oh, no, I think I've always been like that.
哦，不，我想我一直都是這樣。
19:01
I mean, I grew up in a locker room.
我的意思是，我在更衣室長大。
19:02
So it's, you know, I think you're just like that.
所以，我想你就是這樣。
19:05
I'll definitely.
我一定會。
19:05
Yeah, when you're in the locker room, and I love to work.
是的，當你在更衣室，我喜歡工作。
19:09
So a locker room, Alex, is where like athletes get him.
所以更衣室，Alex，就是運動員們的地方。
19:12
Thank you.
謝謝。
19:13
Thank you.
謝謝。
19:14
Really?
真的嗎？
19:15
He's like, I had my own.
他說，我有自己的。
19:16
I think I've always been very curious and I've always had a lot of energy.
我覺得我一直很好奇，也一直充滿活力。
19:25
And I think Barstool made me more public than I would have ever been.
而且我覺得 Barstool 讓我比以往更公開。
19:29
I would not have gotten to this place on my own, I don't think.
我想我不可能單靠自己到達這個位置。
19:32
But I do feel that there is really a lack of management talent.
但我確實感覺到管理人才真的缺乏。
19:39
There's a lack of authenticity.
缺乏真誠。
19:40
There's a lack of care for for younger people at work and passion around being great at work.
對年輕員工的關懷不足，以及對在工作中做到卓越的熱情缺失。
19:49
I think COVID kind of killed the management.
我認為 COVID 以某種方式殺死了管理。
19:52
It really killed management.
它真的消滅了管理。
19:54
Like you stopped getting feedback.
例如你停止收到反饋。
19:56
You stopped meeting with people one on one.
你停止了一對一會面。
19:58
And you stopped learning in the hallways.
你也停止了在走廊學習。
20:01
And, you know, I really believe that work is an apprenticeship.
而且，我真的相信工作是一種學徒制度。
20:04
Anything I learned is because I apprenticed under great people.
我學到的一切都因為我在偉大的人身下學徒。
20:08
And to have a concept where I can talk about work, share work, laugh at work, ridicule, and push people and confront things at work, I think is healthy.
So Erica, you know, Jason and I were talking a little bit a couple of weeks ago about managing talent.
所以 Erica，你知道，Jason 和我幾週前談了一下關於管理人才的事。
20:25
And you've had some tremendous talent come through Barca.
而你也有一些驚人的人才通過 Barca。
20:28
I mean, from Dion Sanders to Alex Cooper, Pat McAfee, and obviously Dan, Kat.
我的意思是從 Dion Sanders 到 Alex Cooper、Pat McAfee，當然還有 Dan、Kat。
20:35
If you had a do over, is there anyone that you wish you could have kept?
如果你有機會重來，是否有任何人你希望能留下來？
20:40
If you thought a little bit more proactively, or is this the nature of doing business and people just have to move on in the next?
如果你更主動一點，或者這就是商業的本質，人們只得往前走？
20:46
It's so funny because I think Dave and I always used to talk about it like an athlete contract, right, where you get a rookie and the rookie contract might not be great.
Maybe it is great in a rare air and a few exceptions.
也許在少數情況下會很棒。
21:02
But you start out, you get your first contract or your first gig if you're a regular person.
但你一開始，無論是拿到第一份合約還是第一份工作，如果你是普通人。
21:07
And it's all about how you perform in that first term.
這一切都取決於你在第一個任期的表現。
21:11
And we were very good about ripping contracts up and creating new ones.
我們非常擅長拆解合約並重新制定新合約。
21:16
And you saw that progression with Alex Cooper in particular because that was very public.
你可以看到這種進展，尤其是與 Alex Cooper，因為那非常公開。
21:20
But I don't know that there's anyone who got away.
但我不知道有人能逃脫。
21:24
There are a lot of talent I'm glad we missed on to be honest with you.
事實上，我很高興我們錯過了許多天賦，說實話。
21:27
Like I'm more grateful for the people we passed on.
我更感激那些我們放棄的人。
21:31
I also think, you know, it's it's funny.
我還覺得，嗯，真是有趣。
21:33
I deal with this now at work.
我現在在工作中處理這件事。
21:34
When a talent leaves, there's a feeling.
當人才離開時，總會有種感覺。
21:38
I think a failure of like, oh, they got away or we shouldn't let them go.
我覺得這是一種失敗，像是「哦，他們逃走了」或「我們不應該讓他們走」。
21:42
But it's really like, hey, they just graduated to something bigger.
但實際上就是「嘿，他們剛剛升級到更大的舞台」。
21:45
And this place, we were very comfortable with Barstool being a springboard to go do other things.
在這個地方，我們非常自在地把 Barstool 視為跳板，去做其他事情。
21:52
I think the world has changed where when you're out on your own in the cold versus you're in a stable where there's constant promotion and cross promotion and an instigation is very hard to make it.
The other part that you guys did really well is you had a great farm system.
你們做得非常好的另一個部分是你們擁有一個優秀的培養系統。
22:12
And you had great scouting where I came from you and there's always a new crop.
你們擁有出色的發掘，從你們那裡來的我，總有新的新人。
22:15
There's always a new crop.
總會有新的新人出現。
22:16
And so how do you translate that because as I understand, I want you to, you know, bring us and our audience up to speed on what you're doing at food 52 because clearly talent also with the talent and content are clearly at the center of that.
So it's how do you think about who's at the top of their game now?
那就是你怎麼看現在誰處於巔峰？
22:45
And how do you feed the next generation of that?
又怎麼培養下一代？
22:48
And that could be if you're an accountant or an FP&A guy or you're a media person or you work in advertising or you work in manufacturing, whatever, it doesn't matter, you work in content.
不管你是會計師、FP&A 人員、媒體人、廣告人、製造業人員，什麼都行，重要的是你從事內容工作。
23:00
I really think about it that you've got to give talent every possible piece of ammunition you have, you have to offer something to them in the power of the parent brand.
我真的認為，你必須給予人才你所有可能的武器，你得在母品牌的力量中為他們提供一些東西。
23:11
I think a lot of times, you know, you read about this with unwell and the Alex Earl versus the Alex Cooper of it all is like, what is unwell offering to other talent outside of Alex Cooper in unwell?
我想很多時候，你會看到關於 Unwell 的報導，Alex Earl 與 Alex Cooper 的對比，問題是 Unwell 為 Alex Cooper 之外的其他人才提供了什麼？
23:24
Like, that's a big question.
這是一個大問題。
23:26
What's the value proposition?
價值主張是什麼？
23:27
Why is someone part of this network versus another network?
為什麼有人會加入這個網絡而不是另一個？
23:31
I think media people and media networks miss that.
我覺得媒體人和媒體網絡忽略了這點。
23:35
But so long as you give talent freedom, you have their back when they mess up because if you're in the public eye and you're making content on a daily basis, you're going to mess up.
但只要你給予人才自由，並在他們失誤時支持他們，因為如果你在公眾視野中每天製作內容，你會犯錯。
23:45
And then three is the money shows up, you can have, then you can play.
然後第三點是資金到位，你就可以，然後你就可以發揮。
23:51
But you always need to be thinking about who's the future, you know, who's the next generation?
但你總是需要思考誰是未來，誰是下一代。
23:57
How do you start competition is so healthy?
你怎麼開始競爭，讓它如此健康？
24:00
I mean, you see this in sports like competition, whether you're in a test at home and life and food or you're part of Barstool is a great thing.
So you mentioned that you ran into the Barstool opportunity by raising capital and then it shifted to something else.
你提到你透過募資遇到了 Barstool 的機會，之後又轉向其他方向。
24:21
So I'm going to do a little role play with you.
那我打算跟你做一個小角色扮演。
24:23
My friend Jason here, he's a CIO.
我的朋友 Jason 在這裡，他是首席投資官。
24:24
He's one of the family office and he has a lot of cash.
他是家族辦公室的一員，手頭有大量現金。
24:28
Okay.
好的。
24:29
And he's looking to invest.
他正在尋找投資機會。
24:30
Can you give him a pitch on why he should invest and what exactly is food 52?
你能否向他推介為什麼應該投資，以及 Food 52 具體是什麼？
24:36
Oh, absolutely.
當然。
24:36
So food 52 started around the same time as Glossier and the whole era of the blog turns into a little shop and the shop turns into a product and the product turns into a movement, right?
And food 52 did this in the subject of table and home and food, really, food as the center of a well-lived life.
Food 52 在餐桌、家庭和飲食這些主題上做了這件事，真正把食物作為美好生活的核心。
25:01
What then happened is food 52 started curating incredible products from all sorts of artisans all around the world and had a very particular aesthetic and a very elevated aesthetic, but also for the first time had a real vision for home cooks versus chefs or restaurateurs
Food media has exploded since that time and what I really believe is that there's a couple things that make food 52 worthy of investments.
如果你想給我錢，我會接受。
25:36
If you want to give me money, I'll take it.
他有很多錢。
25:39
He's got a lot of it.
是的，太好了。
25:40
Yeah, that's great.
我喜歡這個。
25:41
I love that.
我的意思是，顯然。
25:41
I mean, clearly.
翻譯中...
25:44
But essentially, when you think about home and you think about food and you think about table or decor or lighting or textiles or furniture, it doesn't matter.
但本質上，當你想到家、想到食物、想到餐桌或裝飾、照明、紡織品或家具，這些都不重要。
25:59
The internet eats the middleman, right?
網路消滅了中間人，對吧？
26:01
And so you're going to have the Amazons of the world or maybe a target of the world and you'd have a Creighton barrel or pottery barn, and then you're going to have things that are very boutique and bespoke.
And the pieces in the middle aren't really going to exist.
中間的產品其實不會存在。
26:19
And what I think is very interesting about food 52 is that if you create a content engine that surfaces artisans and makers and interior designers and stylists and fashionable women and you service and put products underneath that, you can create a whole ecosystem that has
a lot of cache, that has a lot of differentiation, that has a lot of aspiration and a lot of appeal.
擁有大量的聲望、豐富的差異化、強烈的渴望和吸引力。
26:47
And you can do so in a way that you're not dependent on Facebook and you're not dependent on Google, that you're creating an ongoing conversation with people.
而且你可以以不依賴 Facebook 或 Google 的方式，與人們持續對話。
26:55
So I'll give you an example.
所以我舉個例子。
26:56
I created this thing called work like a girl.
我創造了一個叫做「work like a girl」的東西。
26:59
I was at Barstool, everyone accusing Barstool of being misogynistic.
我在 Barstool，大家都指責 Barstool 有性別歧視。
27:02
So I was like, you know what, I'm going to make t-shirts that say work like a girl.
於是我說，知道嗎？我要做印有「work like a girl」的 T 恤。
27:05
And that became my brand.
那就成了我的品牌。
27:07
And then last summer, I was like, you know what, I'm going to create this into a Slack group.
然後去年夏天，我說，知道嗎？我要把它變成一個 Slack 群組。
27:12
We now have thousands of women who are giving each other advice all day long about getting a job, managing in your job, finding a new job, HR questions, management questions, AI questions, you name it, it's a hive.
And you can surface all sorts of products into that because we're in an ongoing conversation.
你可以在這裡呈現各種產品，因為我們正處於持續對話中。
27:33
That's professional women, you could see the same thing with stay-at-home moms, you could see the same thing with interior designers, and the ability to put products into those environments in a way that's organic, I think will ultimately win in terms of conversion.
So if you look at, you know, we are just about to launch with Porsche.
所以如果你看一下，你知道，我們剛好要與保時捷合作推出。
27:59
So Porsche wants to be associated with our audience.
保時捷想要與我們的觀眾產生聯繫。
28:02
We also are featuring artisanal products that we hand, you know, hand-collect or curate.
我們也會展示我們手工收集或策展的手工藝產品。
28:08
We also manufacture and develop lighting and textiles and furniture, which so there's three lines of business in one Instagram story.
我們還製造和開發照明、紡織品和家具，這樣一個 Instagram 故事就包含三條業務線。
28:17
And that to me is an interesting business.
對我來說，這是一個有趣的商業模式。
28:20
Which is not that dissimilar from the Barstool business.
這與 Barstool 的業務並不相差太大。
28:22
And so how do you level food 52 up?
那麼你怎麼把 Food 52 升級？
28:26
I mean, because when you came in, I mean, you were coming in at least to turn around.
我的意思是，當你加入時，你至少是想要翻轉局面。
28:31
Based on listening to your podcast, it's to turn around.
根據聽你的播客，目的是要翻轉。
28:34
Big time.
大幅度。
28:36
Are you attracted to turn around?
你對翻轉感興趣嗎？
28:38
Like what was it about?
這是什麼意思？
28:40
I don't know.
我不知道。
28:40
Now that I'm in the middle one, I'm like, I'm not sure I'm going to do this again.
現在我已經進入中間，我想，我不確定我會再做一次。
28:43
But I liked the challenge of serving 25 to 54 women.
但我喜歡為 25 到 54 歲女性提供服務的挑戰。
28:52
I was like, that's an interesting demographic.
我想，這是一個有趣的人口統計。
28:55
They have a lot of pull.
他們有很大的吸引力。
28:59
They're under penetrated in a way.
他們在某種程度上被低估。
29:02
They're underserved.
他們被忽視。
29:04
So I liked that.
所以我喜歡這個。
29:06
It's not a viral crowd in the way that an 18 to 34 man is a viral crowd.
這並不是像 18 到 34 歲男性那樣的「病毒式」群體。
29:11
Interesting.
有趣。
29:12
So how you build for them is very different.
因此，為他們打造的方式非常不同。
29:15
I thought that was intellectually very interesting.
我覺得這在智力上非常有趣。
29:16
A lot of spending power.
很多消費力。
29:17
Huge amount of spending power.
巨大的消費力。
29:19
Huge amount of influence.
巨大的影響力。
29:20
And huge amount of influence on other people.
以及對他人的巨大影響。
29:23
You look at youth sports.
你看看青少年運動。
29:25
It's the moms.
是媽媽們。
29:25
You look at what's happening in the home.
你看看家裡發生的事。
29:28
It's the moms.
也是媽媽們。
29:28
You look at a family's finances.
你看看一家人的財務。
29:30
It's typically the mom.
通常是媽媽。
29:32
And then the second piece on the turnaround of it all, I'm curious to learn.
接著是整體翻轉的第二個部分，我很想了解。
29:37
Like if you look, you know, I've been here a year.
比如說，如果你看，我已經在這裡一年了。
29:40
I know more about manufacturing.
我對製造業了解更多。
29:43
I know more about international shipping.
我對國際運輸了解更多。
29:46
I know more about product development.
我對產品開發了解更多。
29:49
I know more about e-commerce than I knew coming in just by a factor of a thousand.
我對電子商務的了解比進來時多了千倍。
29:55
And so regardless, if I can make this thing turn around and, you know, I've taken a huge amount of cost out of the company.
因此，不管怎樣，如果我能讓這件事翻轉，並且，你知道，我已經為公司削減了大量成本。
30:01
I've restructured the company.
我已經重組了公司。
30:02
I've refocused the company.
我已經重新聚焦公司。
30:05
I've rehired the majority of the company.
我已經重新雇用了大部分員工。
30:07
I've totally changed the DNA.
我已經徹底改變了公司的 DNA。
30:10
It may work or it may not.
它可能會成功，也可能不會。
30:12
I think it will work.
我認為它會成功。
30:14
But now I know media.
但現在我了解媒體。
30:16
I know men.
我了解男性。
30:17
I know women and I know manufacturing.
我了解女性，也了解製造業。
30:20
So I feel that I'm more viable because of it, because I've been able to now study different types of business, different consumers, and different business models.
因此，我感覺自己更具可行性，因為我現在能夠研究不同類型的業務、不同的消費者以及不同的商業模式。
30:32
So Erica, you made the analogy about sports.
Erica，你提到了關於體育的類比。
30:36
You go from running this company, Barstow, again, sub 5 million to north of 250 in revenue in like eight years or so.
You're basically the top free agent in the market.
你基本上是市場上最頂尖的自由球員。
30:47
How does that at this opportunity come?
這個機會是如何出現的？
30:48
Because I would imagine that you would have many companies, many headhunters after you.
因為我想像你會有許多公司、許多高級招聘人員追尋你。
30:52
How do you land at 50?
你怎麼在 50 這個位置落腳？
30:54
Yeah, I think everyone thought I would stay in sports and I think everyone thought I would stay in gambling in particular.
是的，我覺得大家都以為我會留在體育領域，甚至更具體地說，留在賭博領域。
31:01
And I got a lot of calls.
我收到了許多電話。
31:04
But I was a little bit scarred leaving Barstow from the big company of it all where I was like, I don't know.
但我離開 Barstow 從那個大公司時有點受傷，因為我不太確定。
31:12
I don't know that I'm going to Disney or I don't know that I'm going to be a cog in a really big machine.
我不知道自己會去迪士尼，或者我不知道自己會成為一個龐大機器中的齒輪。
31:19
I also didn't want to compete against Barstow, because I still have like so much of, I'm a Barstow girl.
我也不想跟Barstow競爭，因為我還有很多，因為我是Barstow女孩。
31:25
So I'm like, I still have so much affection for that brand and the business.
所以我想，我仍然對那個品牌和業務懷有很深的感情。
31:29
And I also felt, you know, like life is short and I want to try something completely different.
我也覺得，人生短暫，我想嘗試完全不同的事。
31:36
The investor behind food 52 is the same investor as Barstow sports.
Food 52背後的投資者與Barstow Sports的投資者相同。
31:41
Sure.
好的。
31:41
And Jesse.
還有Jesse。
31:42
Yes.
是的。
31:43
So that made it also easy.
所以這也讓事情變得更容易。
31:45
I had joined the board of food 52 in 2023.
我於2023年加入了Food 52的董事會。
31:51
So I also got a look firsthand at what it looked like before I got in there, which I like, you know, I sit on the board of vice.
因此，我也親自了解了它在我加入之前的樣子，我喜歡，您知道，我在Vice的董事會任職。
31:58
I'm on the board of axon.
我在Axon的董事會任職。
31:59
I sit on the board of the PLL.
我在PLL的董事會任職。
32:01
So it's great to see companies kind of gives you a sense of where the opportunity and where the challenge is.
這樣看到公司可以讓你了解機會所在與挑戰所在。
32:06
And I felt that there was a lot of upside if I could turn this around.
我覺得如果能把這件事扭轉，會有很大的上升空間。
32:14
And I hadn't done a turnaround in the way that this company needs to turn around.
而且我還沒有做過這家公司所需要的那種轉型。
32:18
And that was a good, it was a good thing that would scare me.
這是一件好事，卻也會讓我感到害怕。
32:22
So as someone who's been on the on the buy side and the sell side throughout your career, like, what are the sorts of deals that you're looking at?
作為一個在職業生涯中既有買方也有賣方經驗的人，你在尋找什麼樣的交易？
32:28
I mean, do you grow through acquisition here?
我的意思是，你們是通過收購來增長嗎？
32:31
Are you a and are those content acquisitions?
你們是做內容收購嗎？
32:34
Are they talented?
他們有才華嗎？
32:34
Like what what commerce are you looking at?
你在看哪種商業？
32:37
Food 52 will grow organically.
Food 52 將有機成長。
32:39
Food 52 made two acquisitions before I got there.
在我加入之前，Food 52 已完成兩項收購。
32:43
They acquired a brand called Dance.
他們收購了一個名為 Dance 的品牌。
32:44
And they acquired a company called Schoolhouse, the company they're during COVID.
他們還收購了一家公司叫 Schoolhouse，該公司在 COVID 期間。
32:50
The synergies between the brands hadn't been recognized.
這些品牌之間的協同效應尚未被認識。
32:54
So I'm more of a try to grow organically.
所以我更傾向於嘗試有機成長。
32:58
That's how I've seen things.
這就是我所見的情況。
33:00
Now, if you look at the PLL or you look at vice, those vice is a company that's finding its way through JV partnerships.
現在，如果你看 PLL 或 vice，那些 vice 是一家透過合資夥伴關係尋找路徑的公司。
33:07
And PLL in the large, large part is growing organically.
而 PLL 在很大程度上是有機成長。
33:12
But also.
但也。
33:12
This is the Premier La Crosse League.
這是 Premier La Crosse League。
33:13
Sorry, the Premier La Crosse League.
抱歉，Premier La Crosse League。
33:14
They're also growing through acquisition.
他們也透過收購成長。
33:16
Axon grows through acquisition.
Axon 透過收購成長。
33:18
So I'm more of a grow organic drive, build a vision, see a vision, build a vision, execute against a vision, have multiple lines of revenue, do so on a low cost basis and then diversify.
I do think acquisition can be an incredible accelerant.
我確實認為收購可以是一個極佳的加速器。
33:40
I think JV's are tough.
我覺得合資很困難。
33:42
Yeah.
嗯。
33:43
And so, interestingly, the proverbial seat you're sitting in Melody Hopson sat in there a bit ago.
而且有趣的是，你現在坐的那個傳說中的座位，Melody Hopson 以前也坐過。
33:50
And she put on what I thought, Alex, was a masterclass in being a board member.
她展示了我認為，Alex，成為董事會成員的精湛課程。
33:55
What are you like as a board member?
作為董事會成員，你是什麼樣的人？
33:56
Like, what do you feel like you bring to the party?
你覺得自己帶來了什麼？
33:59
What's the, what's your sort of, and obviously it varies, board to board, but like, what are you looking to get out of that?
你的定位是什麼？顯然會因董事會而異，但你想從中得到什麼？
34:06
And what are you looking to give?
你又想給予什麼？
34:08
I don't, probably not as good of a board member as Melody Hopson.
我想，我可能不如 Melody Hopson 那麼好。
34:11
Well, I think she's probably the best board member as like the history of boards.
我想她可能是歷史上最好的董事會成員。
34:14
But like, so that's a good thing to aspire to.
這是一個值得追求的好榜樣。
34:16
We all aspire to that.
我們都渴望成為那樣的人。
34:17
I'm not, I ask a thousand questions.
我不是那種，我會問千百個問題。
34:21
I'm very curious.
我非常好奇。
34:22
I like management.
我喜歡管理。
34:24
I am not a, I'm not a pomp and circumstance board member.
我不是那種浮華的董事會成員。
34:28
Like, I appreciate public boards and private company boards, obviously super different.
我欣賞上市公司董事會和私營公司董事會，顯然兩者差異很大。
34:32
Sure.
當然。
34:33
But I'm more interested in how can you represent the needs and, and, and wants, and also the protecting the shareholders.
但我更關心如何代表需求、願望，同時保護股東。
34:44
But also, how do you help the company see something that they have, but they can't see from within?
還有，如何幫助公司看到它們內部無法察覺的事物？
34:51
And so, I'm a high, I guess I'm a high energy board member.
因此，我是一個高能量的董事會成員。
34:55
I'm very passionate.
我非常熱情。
34:56
I have a lot of opinions.
我有很多觀點。
34:58
I think a lot of times in a board, in board sessions, people get very PC and they get very quiet.
我覺得在董事會會議中，很多時候人們會變得非常政治正確，並且變得非常安靜。
35:06
And I think, you know, hard part, I always say this just as an operator and I have boards is there's nothing worse than the board member who does nothing for you and says nothing during the meeting.
So I'm like, I never want to be one of those people.
所以我說，我永遠不想成為那種人。
35:22
So I try to be the opposite of that.
所以我盡量成為相反的那種人。
35:24
All right.
好的。
35:24
So now's the time that we get to talk about one of my favorite subjects, the lacrosse.
現在是我們談論我最喜愛的主題之一——曲棍球的時候。
35:28
In your proverbial seat, Paul Rabel sat, he's a friend of all of ours.
在你那句諺語般的座位上，保羅·拉貝坐下，他是我們所有人的朋友。
35:33
You played lacrosse at Colby College very successfully.
你在科爾比學院非常成功地打過曲棍球。
35:37
So you obviously love the game.
所以你顯然喜愛這項運動。
35:39
How do you link up with Paul and Mike Rabel, his brother who created the, the PLL they have grown, as you, as you mentioned through acquisition?
你是如何與保羅和麥克·拉貝（他創立了 PLL，並且像你提到的那樣通過收購成長）聯繫起來的？
35:48
How does that come about?
這是怎麼發生的？
35:49
And, and, and what's your relationship to the business of lacrosse?
而且，你與曲棍球業務的關係是什麼？
35:53
So Paul and Mike Rabel showed up at Barstell Sports in 2016.
所以保羅和麥克·拉貝在 2016 年出現在 Barstell Sports。
35:59
Wow.
哇。
35:59
And we had two conference rooms and, you know, at that point, probably a hundred guys and like dirty sweats.
我們有兩個會議室，當時大概有一百個人，還有像髒汗一樣的汗水。
36:06
And the conference room table didn't hold up where if you put your elbow on it, it just fell off.
會議室的桌子不堅固，如果你把手肘放上去，它就會掉下來。
36:11
I get everything was in the constant state of falling apart of Barstell.
我覺得 Barstell 的一切都處於不斷崩潰的狀態。
36:14
And they showed up because that's a metaphor.
他們出現是因為那是一個隱喻。
36:18
Yes.
是的。
36:18
Um, so they showed up and Paul was playing for the MLL, which was a competitive league at the time.
嗯，他們出現了，保羅當時在MLL打球，那是一個競爭激烈的聯盟。
36:26
And I believe he had a large sponsorship with Warrior lacrosse, which was owned by New Balance.
我相信他與Warrior lacrosse 有一個大型贊助，該公司由New Balance 擁有。
36:34
And they were looking for advice on how they could get out of that.
他們正在尋求建議，如何能夠創建一個名為PLL的東西？
36:41
How could they, how, how could this thing be created called the PLL?
他們如何能夠創建一個名為PLL的東西？
36:46
And they showed up and we were supposed to meet for a half hour.
他們出現了，我們原本預定會面半小時。
36:50
We ended up meeting for like two and a half hours.
最終我們會面了大約兩個半小時。
36:53
And I've been connected to them ever since.
從那時起，我一直與他們保持聯繫。
36:56
So what were you, were you thinking, all right, this is a viable option?
那麼你當時在想，好的，這是一個可行的選項嗎？
37:01
This isn't about like, did you think they could create a whole new league?
這不是說，你是否認為他們能創建一個全新的聯盟？
37:04
Definitely because that summer that when they came to see me, we had just written Jordi, one of the Barstell guys had just written a blog on the conditions of the MLL players, which were pretty embarrassing, you know, like it was one pizza to be shared across 30 guys.
They were making like negative 50 bucks every day.
他們每天賠錢大約50美元。
37:26
They were literally like going home with fans and like sleeping on their couch.
他們實際上帶著粉絲回家，睡在他們的沙發上。
37:30
Yeah, it was awful.
是的，真糟糕。
37:31
Yeah, it was awful.
是的，真糟糕。
37:33
And Paul was the first million dollar player, and he had this big lucrative contract, but the big lucrative contract was tied to the league.
保羅是第一位百萬美元球員，他有一份高利潤合同，但這份合同與聯盟掛鉤。
37:41
And so I thought it was an interesting problem to solve, which is he had a burden hand, which was a big sponsorship.
所以我覺得這是一個有趣的問題要解決，他有一個負擔，這是一個大型贊助。
37:48
The first time anyone in that sport had been recognized at that financial level, and he wanted to give it up to start something new.
這是該運動中第一個在財務層面得到如此認可的人，他想放棄這份合同，開始新的事業。
37:57
And I thought it was very brave.
我覺得這非常勇敢。
37:59
I thought it was ballsy.
我覺得那很魯莽。
38:01
And I also felt that, you know, we were getting, Barstell was getting really a first hand look at sports because we're doing so much, you know, this was early days for bars, you know, not early, early Barstell, but early in my time at Barstell.
We were seeing, you know, hockey is kind of lagging.
我們看到，嗯，冰球有點落後。
38:17
Hockey is a very insular media culture around it.
冰球是一種非常封閉的媒體文化。
38:20
Football was starting to rage, not the way it is now, but in a way that was big baseball was, you know, a little sleepy.
美式足球開始沸騰，雖然不像現在那樣，但以某種方式很大；棒球則，你知道，稍微有點沉睡。
38:28
And I really felt that when I looked at the energy, you know, you're a great example of this, the amount of money, time, and effort people will spend on their kids across is bananas.
We've talked about this in the context of La Crosse.
我們在 La Crosse 的背景下談過這件事。
38:49
I mean, it really is like AROD being like, you know what?
我的意思是，真的就像 AROD 那樣說，知道嗎？
38:53
I think there's a better baseball league that I can, you know, just be like, this major league is crazy.
我覺得有一個更好的棒球聯盟，我可以說，這個大聯盟太瘋狂了。
38:58
It's crazy to think about it.
想起來就很瘋狂。
38:59
Bananas, bananas.
瘋狂，瘋狂。
39:00
What are you going to do?
你打算怎麼做？
39:01
Yeah, bananas, bananas, bananas.
是的，香蕉，香蕉，香蕉。
39:02
Yeah, exactly.
是的，完全正確。
39:02
Really cool.
真的很酷。
39:03
But you had a lot of those ideas.
但你有很多這些想法。
39:06
I mean, that baseball, I mean, when we were working together, baseball should be more entertaining.
我的意思是，那個棒球，我是說，當我們一起工作時，棒球應該更有娛樂性。
39:10
You've got to commingle the entertainment and the game.
你必須將娛樂與比賽結合。
39:13
And they've done that.
他們已經做到這一點。
39:14
They have.
他們確實做到了。
39:15
They've done it like they have.
他們已經這樣做了。
39:17
And we talked about youth sports a lot with podcasts and it's a $40 billion opportunity.
我們在播客中談論了許多年輕體育，這是一個400億美元的機會。
39:22
And it's so fragmented.
而且它非常分散。
39:24
And I always go to like, how do we also make sure that like my mom who couldn't afford, you know, big ticket items, how do we grow the sport, but also make it affordable for all?
We have to make it because we don't want to lose great players to other sport because they can't afford it.
我們必須做到這一點，因為我們不想因為他們負擔不起而把優秀球員流失到其他運動。
39:40
That's just not good enough.
這根本不夠好。
39:42
And so how do you grow, again, asking for a friend, how do you grow lacrosse?
那麼你怎麼再一次，為朋友問，怎麼發展長曲棍球？
39:47
I think you have to go to the youth.
我認為你必須針對青少年。
39:48
Yeah.
是的。
39:49
You need more kids preferring lacrosse.
你需要更多孩子偏好長曲棍球。
39:53
Lacrosse is low barrier of entry sport.
盒子球是一項入門門檻低的運動。
39:56
You know, if you look at street lacrosse and Harlem, like perfect example, it's not, if you can pick up a basketball, you can pick up a lacrosse stick and ball.
There's also been an expansion into, you know, there's now the WLL, the women's league.
也擴展到了，現在有了WLL，女子聯盟。
40:10
I would imagine as a former.
我想像作為一個前……
40:12
I'm passionate about the women's league.
我對女子聯盟充滿熱情。
40:14
And the women's lacrosse, the coolest thing about the WLL is they will be bigger stars than the men.
而女子盒子球，WLL最酷的地方是她們將比男子更成為大明星。
40:22
Really?
真嗎？
40:24
Because they, they get it.
因為她們，他們懂得。
40:27
They want it.
她們想要。
40:28
They are captivating on camera.
她們在鏡頭前很迷人。
40:32
They Charlotte North and what she does for young girls playing lacrosse is epic.
她（Charlotte North）以及她為年輕女孩玩盒子球所做的事是史詩般的。
40:39
And they're also new.
而且她們也很新。
40:40
And I, you know, this is my thing for, which I've been saying to Paul and Mike forever.
而我，你知道，這是我的事情，我一直對Paul和Mike說。
40:45
This is what I'm like on the board is like, who is your Dennis Rodman?
這就是我在板上說的，"你們的Dennis Rodman是誰？"
40:49
Yeah.
對。
40:50
Like, who's the jerk?
那麼，誰是那個混蛋？
40:52
Who's creating controversy?
誰在制造爭議？
40:54
It's the same conversation with WNBA.
這與WNBA的對話相同。
40:56
Like the more players showing color off the court in a way that's real and relatable and impassioned, the better off the sport's going to be.
就像球員在場外以真實、可親、充滿激情的方式展現個性越多，運動的前景就越好。
41:07
Well, I mean, to the point of they get it, I mean, you've seen this through the links.
嗯，我是說，說到他們理解這點，我是說，你已經透過連結看過這件事了。
41:12
You know, we've seen it in college sports, especially you think about women's college basketball and the stars that, you know, not just Caitlin, but Paige Becker's when she was at UConn, Juwapkins at USC.
I mean, these are stars in part because they have cultivated that in a much more methodical and serious way.
我的意思是，這些明星部分原因是他們以更有條理、更認真的方式培養了這種能力。
41:32
As a job.
作為一份工作。
41:33
Right.
對。
41:33
Right.
對。
41:33
They just see the, they see the potential there.
他們只是看到了，看到那裡的潛力。
41:36
A hundred percent.
百分之百。
41:37
Now, going back to food 52, I'm curious.
現在，回到 Food 52，我很好奇。
41:40
Where do you see this in the next three to five years in a perfect world?
在理想情況下，你認為在未來三到五年內這會怎樣？
41:43
Did we talk about Barstow?
我們談過 Barstow 嗎？
41:44
In a perfect world, totally.
在理想情況下，完全是這樣。
41:46
I think in a perfect world, food 52 finds a home inside of a bigger company and it brings the engine to bear.
我認為在理想情況下，Food 52 能在更大的公司中找到一個位置，並將其引擎發揮出來。
41:52
And that may be something that should happen in seven years and, you know, or it happens in three years or, you know, but I think it should be part of something bigger.
這可能是七年內應該發生的事，或者三年內發生，無論如何，我認為它應該成為更大事物的一部分。
42:01
And potentially not to give any secrets away, but what type of company you think?
而且為了不透露任何機密，你認為是哪種類型的公司？
42:05
Could be a retail company that's looking for product differentiation or is looking for category expansion or is looking for a new customer set.
可能是一家尋求產品差異化、類別擴張或尋找新客群的零售公司。
42:17
Or you could see, you know, more and more media companies are looking for food and home and life content.
或者你會看到，越來越多媒體公司正在尋找食品、家居和生活內容。
42:25
And so they're also looking for diverse lines of revenue and they're looking to expand e-commerce beyond affiliate.
因此他們也在尋求多元化收入來源，並希望將電子商務擴展到超越聯盟營銷。
42:32
So I kind of see those two paths as opportunities for this company.
所以我把這兩條路視為該公司的機會。
42:38
So I have no doubt you're going to crush it in the next three, five, seven years with food 52.
我毫不懷疑，你將在未來三、五、七年內與 Food 52 一起大放異彩。
42:42
I always wonder this, you're very young, yeah, you have a lot of experience.
我總是會想，雖然你很年輕，但你有很多經驗。
42:47
Is there a dream job out there five, seven years from now that that's out there that you kind of think about a little bit, but you haven't leaned into it yet?
五、七年後有沒有一份夢想工作，你有點想過，但還沒有真正投入？
42:56
Is there one job?
有一份工作嗎？
42:57
Oh, I think I'm going to be like a college professor.
哦，我想我會成為一名大學教授。
42:59
Oh, really?
哦，真的嗎？
43:01
Yep.
對。
43:01
I think I would teach business or I teach marketing.
我想我會教商業或市場營銷。
43:04
I'm passionate about work like a girl.
我對像女孩一樣的工作充滿熱情。
43:06
I could see doing work like a girl for a long time.
我能想像長期從事像女孩一樣的工作。
43:09
I think, you know, I was in the Middle East last winter for a sportico conference and it was fascinating to me.
我想，你知道，我去年冬天去中東參加了一個 Sportico 會議，對我來說非常迷人。
43:17
It was all men.
那裡全是男性。
43:18
It was very well done.
會議舉辦得非常好。
43:21
And I'm like, God, if you could just create a conference for women around culture and home and lifestyle, I'm interested.
我心想，天啊，如果你能舉辦一個關於文化、家庭和生活方式的女性會議，我會很感興趣。
43:28
That's a business I would build after this for sure.
那肯定是我之後會創辦的事業。
43:31
So I'm interested in that.
所以我對此很感興趣。
43:33
So one of the things that strikes me as we start to wrap up and we got rapid fire questions coming out to it in a second, but this notion that it feels like your brand, again, listening to your podcast, even listening to this conversation, like, you're about real talk.
I mean, the title of your book, I want to make sure I get this right.
我的意思是，你書的標題，我想確保我說對了。
43:52
Nobody cares about your career.
沒有人在乎你的職業。
43:54
Why failure is good?
為什麼失敗是好的？
43:55
The great ones play hurt and other hard truths.
大人物會承受痛苦和其他艱難的真相。
43:57
Like, this is who you are.
像這樣，這就是你自己。
43:59
Give us some hard truths that you've learned.
告訴我們你學到的一些硬道理。
44:02
Oh, I mean, failure.
哦，我是說，失敗。
44:04
It's all failure.
全部都是失敗。
44:05
And the better you can be failing is the better you'll be winning.
你越能在失敗中做到最好，成功就會越好。
44:10
You struck out a bunch of times.
你已經被三振了好幾次。
44:11
It was so funny.
那真的很有趣。
44:12
100%.
100%。
44:12
Like, I'm fit for all time in the history of strikeouts, right?
就像，我在三振歷史上是最棒的，對吧？
44:16
It's cool that Richard Jackson, my buddy's number one.
很酷的是，理查德·傑克遜是我朋友的第一名。
44:20
There's four people in the history of mankind that have struck out more.
在人類歷史上，有四個人三振次數比你還多。
44:23
And I think that one of my small competitive advantages in business is that baseball is a game of failure.
我認為我在商業上的一個小競爭優勢是棒球是一場關於失敗的遊戲。
44:29
And if you fail 70% of the time, you end up in Cooperstown in the Hall of Fame.
如果你失敗率達70%，你就會進入庫珀斯鎮名人堂。
44:33
So the ability to get up to bat with optimism after so much failure, I think is a real gift.
所以在經歷如此多失敗後，仍能以樂觀的態度站上打擊區，這我認為是一種真正的禮物。
44:39
Yeah, I wish people would put themselves out there more and younger.
是的，我希望人們能更早、更頻繁地把自己推向外面。
44:47
If you look at the percentages in baseball, they're pathetic.
如果你看看棒球中的百分比，它們真是可憐。
44:51
I mean, it's so infinitesimally small.
我的意思是，它們極其微小。
44:55
And the reality is you're one of the greatest successes of all time.
而現實是，你是有史以來最偉大的成功之一。
44:59
And I really think the same thing is true.
我真的認為同樣的道理也適用。
45:01
It's the reps.
這就是重複。
45:02
It's you got to put yourself out there.
你必須把自己推出去。
45:04
You have to try it.
你必須嘗試。
45:05
You have to take initiative.
你必須主動出擊。
45:07
I think people are failing to be generous and generous in their questions, generous in their thinking, generous in their effort.
我認為人們在提問、思考、努力上都缺乏慷慨。
45:15
And the more generous you can be with yourself in putting yourself into whatever it is you're doing and the more chances you take, one of them is going to hit.
而且你越能對自己慷慨，把自己投入到你正在做的事中，越多機會你就會抓住其中一個。
45:27
Yeah.
是的。
45:28
All right.
好的。
45:28
We're going to go the rapid fire.
我們將進行快速問答。
45:29
Okay.
好。
45:29
All right.
好的。
45:30
So 10 questions.
那麼10個問題。
45:32
We're going to bounce them back and forth.
我們將來回提問。
45:33
So just like first thing that comes to your mind, one word to describe your deal making style.
就像你腦中第一個想到的，請用一個詞描述你的交易風格。
45:39
Fast.
快速。
45:40
What's more important?
什麼更重要？
45:42
Your data or your gut?
數據還是直覺？
45:43
Cut.
結束。
45:44
Who's your dream deal making partner?
你夢寐以求的交易夥伴是誰？
45:47
In what way?
以什麼方式？
45:48
Like in?
像在？
45:49
However, you take it.
然而，你就接受吧。
45:50
Who's my dream deal?
誰是我的夢想交易對象？
45:52
I'm Dave Porton.
我是戴夫·波頓。
45:52
There you go.
就這樣。
45:53
What's the best piece of advice you received on deal making or business?
你收到的關於交易或商業的最佳建議是什麼？
45:58
That no is the second best answer to yes.
那麼「不」是對「是」的第二好答案。
46:02
What's the worst advice you've been given?
你收到過最糟糕的建議是什麼？
46:05
Hang in there.
堅持住。
46:08
What's your hype song before you go to a big meeting or a negotiation?
你在前往重要會議或談判前最喜歡的熱血歌曲是什麼？
46:12
Ooh, this is an excellent one.
哦，這首歌真是太棒了。
46:14
I have two.
我有兩首。
46:14
One is I'm coming out by Diana Ross and two is the VELT by Deadmouth.
一首是黛安娜·羅斯的《I'm Coming Out》，另一首是Deadmouth的《VELT》。
46:20
Wow.
哇。
46:21
You can only watch one sport for the rest of your life.
你只能在餘生只看一項運動。
46:23
Which one is it?
那是哪一項？
46:25
Tennis.
網球。
46:27
What team do you want to see win a championship more than any?
你最想看到哪支隊伍贏得冠軍？
46:31
Actually, you're a tennis fan.
其實，你是網球迷。
46:32
You could say a person.
你可以說是個人。
46:33
Team or person?
球隊還是個人？
46:34
I mean, Carlos.
我是說，卡洛斯。
46:36
Carlos Algras.
卡洛斯·阿爾格拉斯。
46:36
Yeah.
是啊。
46:37
Carlita.
卡莉塔。
46:37
I mean, he's won a lot.
我是說，他贏了很多。
46:38
But yeah, we love Carlita.
但是的，我們喜歡卡莉塔。
46:40
He's so great.
他太棒了。
46:40
You're obviously now running a food company.
你現在顯然在經營一家食品公司。
46:42
Had your last meal.
吃了你最後一頓飯。
46:44
What would that meal be?
那頓飯會是什麼？
46:45
Oh, that'd be like New Haven pizza and blueberries.
哦，那會像新罕布什爾風味披薩和藍莓。
46:48
Oh, I got to try that.
哦，我得試試看。
46:50
All right.
好的。
46:51
Erica, really, really good to spend some time with you.
埃莉卡，真的很高興能和你共度時光。
46:53
Thank you.
謝謝。
46:53
That was fun.
那很有趣。
46:54
Thank you.
謝謝。
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